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Author Topic: Cotto 146 Clottey 147 ***Spoilers***  (Read 12657 times)
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Gaz
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« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2009, 10:45:20 AM »

So we're in agreement that Cotto's outside game isn't that great, which is what I posted originally and you were questioning.

It's not a game he has to use that often. Margarito has been the only guy strong enough to force Cotto to revert to outside fighting when possible. You can't blame him if his 'outside game' was, let's say a little rusty at times..?
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« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2009, 10:45:20 AM »

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Hitman
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« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2009, 10:49:19 AM »

So we're in agreement that Cotto's outside game isn't that great, which is what I posted originally and you were questioning.

No

The original point i was questioning was your inane comment about Cotto being brainless. That was the least informed opinion of Cotto ive ever read.

Cotto can fight on the back foot and he can beat Clottey on the back foot. My point was he can fight on the back foot but not as effectivly as he can fight going forward, because thats his style.
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Haynesey
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« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2009, 11:08:58 AM »

You can't tie up a guy who is naturally bigger and stronger than you. I haven't neglected the fact that Cotto was willing to trade punches with Margarito because he is a fighter, rather than the ballet dancer Mayweather that you so admire. You cannot possibly compare this fight to Mayweather-Hatton, that is a ludicrous comparison, seeing as Mayweather turned out to be the bigger, stronger, more natural welterweight than Hatton. Margarito is a big guy for a welterweight and Cotto put up a tremendous effort against him. If you cannot admire the counter punching that Cotto exhibited that night, or the movement that he showed to make Margarito look foolish, then I'm not sure you know what you're lookng at. Of course Cotto was never going to do that the whole fight be he is actually willing to engage in genuine combat, unlike others I could mention. It staggers me that you find Cotto to be a brainless fighter when you consider his performances against the likes of Mosley, Judah, Quintana etc.

-Why can you not tie up a guy who is naturally bigger and stronger than you, I did not expect Cotto to grab Margarito and maul him around the ring as Hatton would, instead he should of attached himself to Margarito untill the referee broke them free.
-'Cotto is a fighter.' Fighters don't quit.
-'Mayweather is a ballet dancer', I suggest you educate yourself and give Floyd's bouts with Corley, Gatti, Chavez, Burton, Judah, Manfredy, NDou, Hernandez and Corrales a view.
-I used Mayweather-Hatton as an example of how these running attacks you referred to can be avoided by an excellent outside fighter, Mayweather would at times set his feet and tee off with sharp, hard combinations, using Hatton's forward momentum to further heighten the impact, we saw no such variation from Cotto.
-I admire counter punching when the counter puchee is not taking shots in return, and lateral movement when it is neccesary and not wasted, none of this was on display from Cotto that night.
-Cotto's performances against those men showcased his abilities, however, when they were most needed against Margarito, he failed to apply them intelligently.
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Gaz
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« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2009, 11:18:22 AM »

-Why can you not tie up a guy who is naturally bigger and stronger than you, I did not expect Cotto to grab Margarito and maul him around the ring as Hatton would, instead he should of attached himself to Margarito untill the referee broke them free.
-'Cotto is a fighter.' Fighters don't quit.
-'Mayweather is a ballet dancer', I suggest you educate yourself and give Floyd's bouts with Corley, Gatti, Chavez, Burton, Judah, Manfredy, NDou, Hernandez and Corrales a view.
-I used Mayweather-Hatton as an example of how these running attacks you referred to can be avoided by an excellent outside fighter, Mayweather would at times set his feet and tee off with sharp, hard combinations, using Hatton's forward momentum to further heighten the impact, we saw no such variation from Cotto.
-I admire counter punching when the counter puchee is not taking shots in return, and lateral movement when it is neccesary and not wasted, none of this was on display from Cotto that night.
-Cotto's performances against those men showcased his abilities, however, when they were most needed against Margarito, he failed to apply them intelligently.

I do not need educating from you thanks very much, I've seen plenty of Mayweather fights and know what he is capable of. I made the ballet dancer statement because I knew it would get a rise out of you  Tongue  Grin

I've watched the Cotto-Margarito fight several times and I saw a war between two top quality welterweights, with Cotto showcasing some beautiful boxing skills and Margarito showing an indomitable will to win, which eventually won through for him. It's laughable that you can call Cotto's performance brainless.

And once again the Mayweather-Hatton fight is a horrendous example to be used as a comparison. Hatton charged forward and threw a big left hook, when that didn't land he had nothing else to offer other than to try and wrestle Mayweather, which he couldn't do because Mayweather was stronger. Margarito's punch output was huge by comparison, and he was the bigger, stronger guy. Cotto is not an outside fighter by trade, but it doesn't make him a brainless outside fighter. Like I said before, it's not a game he has to use that often. Margarito has been the only guy strong enough to walk through some truly world class punching from Cotto, and force Cotto to revert to outside fighting when possible. You can't blame him if his 'outside game' was, let's say a little rusty at times..?
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Haynesey
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« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2009, 11:20:12 AM »

No

The original point i was questioning was your inane comment about Cotto being brainless. That was the least informed opinion of Cotto ive ever read.

Cotto can fight on the back foot and he can beat Clottey on the back foot. My point was he can fight on the back foot but not as effectivly as he can fight going forward, because thats his style.

For Cotto to take himself that far out of his comfort zone in the Margarito fight indicates a lack of intelligence, he was more than capable of retaining his aggressive style against Margarito as Shane did and Clottey was doing before his hand injury. Miguel had great success using these tactics in the first round, yet decided to abandon this approach and became an outside fighter from the second round on, that does not indicate a high boxing IQ to me.
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« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2009, 11:20:12 AM »

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dave j
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« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2009, 11:35:46 AM »

well from what i saw in the cotto magarita fight,,cotto was dancing round like a ballet dancer,,there was no power being delivered in his punches,,,mosley sat down on every punch he threw against marg,and when marg got in range,,mosley smothered him,,,i feel this approach is what cotto needs to do against clottey
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Haynesey
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« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2009, 11:40:43 AM »

I do not need educating from you thanks very much, I've seen plenty of Mayweather fights and know what he is capable of. I made the ballet dancer statement because I knew it would get a rise out of you  Tongue  Grin

I've watched the Cotto-Margarito fight several times and I saw a war between two top quality welterweights, with Cotto showcasing some beautiful boxing skills and Margarito showing an indomitable will to win, which eventually won through for him. It's laughable that you can call Cotto's performance brainless.

And once again the Mayweather-Hatton fight is a horrendous example to be used as a comparison. Hatton charged forward and threw a big left hook, when that didn't land he had nothing else to offer other than to try and wrestle Mayweather, which he couldn't do because Mayweather was stronger. Margarito's punch output was huge by comparison, and he was the bigger, stronger guy. Cotto is not an outside fighter by trade, but it doesn't make him a brainless outside fighter. Like I said before, it's not a game he has to use that often. Margarito has been the only guy strong enough to walk through some truly world class punching from Cotto, and force Cotto to revert to outside fighting when possible. You can't blame him if his 'outside game' was, let's say a little rusty at times..?

I was not planning on educating you personally, the footage would have done that for me.

Hatton-Mayweather is not a horrendous example, I am not referring to the counter left hook Floyd was throwing late, from the end of the very first round Mayweather was doing as I've claimed, upsetting Hatton's rhythm by setting his feet and unloading with hard accurate shots. Cotto may not be a great outside fighter, but he is more than capable of doing that, especially against a man who truely is brainless, incapable of using his size and reach to his advantage. Instead he chose to use excessive movement and arm punches throughout, never setting his feet and truely attempting to slow Margarito down.

Fighting on the outside was not a game Cotto needed to use at all, and an intelligent fighter woud have recognised this from the success Cotto was having when he set his feet and backed Margarito up in the opening round.
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harty
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« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2009, 11:42:00 AM »

ill take cotto to win ko in 10 th .but it wont be an easy fight.
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« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2009, 11:45:24 AM »

well from what i saw in the cotto magarita fight,,cotto was dancing round like a ballet dancer,,there was no power being delivered in his punches,,,mosley sat down on every punch he threw against marg,and when marg got in range,,mosley smothered him,,,i feel this approach is what cotto needs to do against clottey

I agree, although having failed to do this against Margarito, I'm not predicting Cotto do it tonight.
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Gaz
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« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2009, 12:08:04 PM »

I was not planning on educating you personally, the footage would have done that for me.

Hatton-Mayweather is not a horrendous example, I am not referring to the counter left hook Floyd was throwing late, from the end of the very first round Mayweather was doing as I've claimed, upsetting Hatton's rhythm by setting his feet and unloading with hard accurate shots. Cotto may not be a great outside fighter, but he is more than capable of doing that, especially against a man who truely is brainless, incapable of using his size and reach to his advantage. Instead he chose to use excessive movement and arm punches throughout, never setting his feet and truely attempting to slow Margarito down.

Fighting on the outside was not a game Cotto needed to use at all, and an intelligent fighter woud have recognised this from the success Cotto was having when he set his feet and backed Margarito up in the opening round.

As has been mentioned, the constant blood flowing throughout Cotto's mouth and head made it physically impossible to fight the whole fight as Cotto did in the first round.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 03:18:17 PM by Gaz » Logged
Haynesey
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« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2009, 12:21:14 PM »

As has been mentioned, Cotto was fighting on the outside before Margarito inflicted  damage. I believe that the broken nose was as a result of Cotto allowing himself to be cornered by a plodding Margarito, and Antonio landing hard when Miguel should have been tying him up.

Why are you picking and choosing what points you respond to, I have responded to all of yours.
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cowboy55
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« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2009, 12:56:38 PM »

I would imagine that the Main event will be on first around 2:30am which would be 9:30pm US time


only fight on HBO calls for 10:30 start time.damn am i gonna get in late tonight Wink
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god bless ya Larry Costa-running laps in that track in the sky&remember all the little dudes-they're what it's all about mateys
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« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2009, 01:58:15 PM »

Not sure if this has been posted yet.

Miguel Cotto vs Joshua Clottey (Weigh-In)
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RAZZ-MCFC
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« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2009, 02:24:27 PM »

it'll be between 4-4.30am fights from MSG always start around then
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jonjoe
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« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2009, 02:55:11 PM »

He was really struggling 3 years ago to make the LWW limit and now his body has adjusted to the WW division. He'd be badly drained at 142 so there's no point as Pac wouldn't be fighting the real Cotto.

Speaking of being weight drained, is it just me or does Clottey look a little less strong at the weight?
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