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[DNO]

Taylor, Wright and Pavlik were all middleweights.

True, but all were discussed as Calzaghe opponents at one stage.

[Gaz Calzaghe]

Joe Calzaghe would of pissed the super six if he was init, then slandered about the caliber of fighters that were in the tournament.

Red, Hopkins kicked Calzaghe's ass ? nut hugging mate, because Hopkins led and landed with his head 40+ times, and clinched 150 + times, if Cortez refereed it like the Mayweather Hatton fight, you would of seen a dominant performance. Hopkins shouldn't of been allowed to fight the way he did for a start.

Joe also won by 4 clear rounds, the only thing that made it look close was the knockdown, and Jermain Tayler knocked down Carl Froch. So whats your point about Hopkins flooring him ? You're not making any clear sense in comparison, he got up he won.

Clinton Woods beat Glen Johnson a much *younger* Glen Johnson. So whats your point about Froch beating him, he's a bum.

Ward's going to win this tournament easy anyways, so Froch's legacy will be in tatters on the comparison to the Calzaghe legacy.

Hope Carl wins, hell of a chin and tough, but that's it. Takes more at the elite level, he's a good world champion, but not the next level the pound for pound list shall we say.

[Tim2366]

See this is the problem with Calzaghe fans...they say Calzaghe would of beat Froch and hed of stil beat Kessler if the fight was in Denmark they say hed win the super six and would of beat all these guys who he failed to fight throughout his career than they say he would of fought top level fighters back to back home or away......but fact is he hasnt and didnt. End of the day any boxing fan in the world would rather watch a dvd of Froch and his fights than one of Calzaghe.

[RAZZ-MCFC]

this argument has been done to death now

it's on a level with the Mayweather/Pacquiao one, that's how bad it is!

Calzaghe has retired and Carl is still facing world class opponent after world class opponent

there's no way the argument will ever be settled now, may as well just let Joe enjoy his retirement and let Carl reign for another few years, otherwise this is just gonna keep going around in circles

[patchy4613]

See this is the problem with Calzaghe fans...they say Calzaghe would of beat Froch and hed of stil beat Kessler if the fight was in Denmark they say hed win the super six and would of beat all these guys who he failed to fight throughout his career than they say he would of fought top level fighters back to back home or away......but fact is he hasnt and didnt. End of the day any boxing fan in the world would rather watch a dvd of Froch and his fights than one of Calzaghe.

Too true mate. Since I got back from AC, I've been sick of people at work telling me how the SM division isn't that good and how Calzaghe would have walked the super 6 and cleaned up the belts. Drives me mad!!

Maybe he would have, but lets stop bothering about that and support Carl now. Both guys are top fighters, but it's Carl who is doing the business now, and taking on the best in the world at his weight repeatedly.

[Harvey]

Patchy that sums it up for me Joes retired so Carl is the man now :-)

[motoriser]

Too true mate. Since I got back from AC, I've been sick of people at work telling me how the SM division isn't that good and how Calzaghe would have walked the super 6 and cleaned up the belts. Drives me mad!!

Maybe he would have, but lets stop bothering about that and support Carl now. Both guys are top fighters, but it's Carl who is doing the business now, and taking on the best in the world at his weight repeatedly.

The same Calzaghe who won a Vacant title and took a whopping 9 years for him to face a Champion in a Unification fight?
Well in the Super 6,both fighters in the final will be having their first Unification fight after being Champions for only 2 years.Much better than wasting 9 years fighting Milkmen and rematching a Bum who you had knocked out in one round.
Did not rematch Robin Reid,did not rematch anyone who came close to beating him.
If Froch wins the final he would have a much better Resume already since he would have done something Joe never dared to do,and thus face an Unbeaten World Champion plus Olympic Gold Medalist in his Physical Prime.
Ward will be 27 years old and is enjoying a winning streak that surpasses over 100 consecutive wins(Pro and Amateur). 

[Tim2366]

The same Calzaghe who won a Vacant title and took a whopping 9 years for him to face a Champion in a Unification fight?
Well in the Super 6,both fighters in the final will be having their first Unification fight after being Champions for only 2 years.Much better than wasting 9 years fighting Milkmen and rematching a Bum who you had knocked out in one round.
Did not rematch Robin Reid,did not rematch anyone who came close to beating him.

IQ mate....the supermid division is very strong atm so theres no way of telling how Calzaghe would have handled guys like Dirrell,Ward,Froch,Pascal etc. we all know those guys would all beat up the likes of Bika,Manfredo,Veit,Jones and Lacy.

[motoriser]

IQ mate....the supermid division is very strong atm so theres no way of telling how Calzaghe would have handled guys like Dirrell,Ward,Froch,Pascal etc. we all know those guys would all beat up the likes of Bika,Manfredo,Veit,Jones and Lacy.

Lacy was a Paper Champion who would have been exposed by our Anthony Mundine had they fought anyways,but he opted to fight Calzaghe instead and got exposed.
Seriously,Lacy had competed at the Sydney Olympics and achieved nothing,I'm surprised how people could have hyped him up so much given his ordinary Pedigree.
No one in Australia bought into the hype as we had seen him flunk at the Sydney GAMES.

[Mal]

Lacy was a Paper Champion who would have been exposed by our Anthony Mundine had they fought anyways,but he opted to fight Calzaghe instead and got exposed.
Seriously,Lacy had competed at the Sydney Olympics and achieved nothing,I'm surprised how people could have hyped him up so much given his ordinary Pedigree.
No one in Australia bought into the hype as we had seen him flunk at the Sydney GAMES.

I was filthy Lacy went with Calzaghe then that of Kessler. I had watched fights of Lacy and was convinced he was there for the taking. I was not convinced Calzaghe would ever take the fight with Kessler and it took a master stroke by Palle and the helping hand of HBO to force that fight.  

Kessler was just as keen to get to Lacy too. Well in actual fact, Calzaghe's nerves were shot to bits in relation to the next so called Tyson. Kessler on the flipside was a fighter who feared no one. I watched that fight in near agony knowing how bad Lacy was, and knowing Calzaghe would beat him. The hype surrounding him was unreal.

An open letter from Mikkel below from back in 05.........

"Hello Mr. Lacy: Although we have never met, we have much in common. For starters, you are an undefeated world super middleweight boxing champion (IBF) and so am I (WBA). Like me, you are not afraid to take your gloves on the road if it means facing the toughest competition you can find. For example, I recently went Down Under to defend my world title against Anthony Mundine and you are willing to go to the United Kingdom to fight WBO 168-pound champion Joe Calzaghe..

I share your frustration in dealing with Mr. Calzaghe and his promoter, Fearless Frank ******. My manager-promoter, Bettina Palle along with her father, Danish legend Mogens Palle, were this close, or so we thought, to making a deal for me to do a title unification match against Calzaghe. Like you, I was also prepared to go to the UK to face the oft-injured Calzaghe.

I am in agreement with you and your promoter, Big Gary Shaw, that it was idiotic for Calzaghe to do that fight with a virtual midget Evans Ashira. This was not even a true "tune up" in preparation for a showdown with you. In fact, it may have turned into a "tune out" bout by wrecking your title unifier against Calzaghe.

Another thing we have in common right now is that we both need an attractive opponent for our next fight. My dance card looks limited and so does yours. So I think you know where I am going with this.

Lacy vs. Kessler. Kessler vs. Lacy. Tampa-St. Petersburg or Copenhagen. The location does not matter much. But you must admit our two names linked together does have a sweet ring to it.

You bring your world title belt and I will bring mine. My people have made it clear to Big Gary Shaw and to Showtime that I am ready, willing and available for this super showdown assuming that proper conditions and terms can be agreed to by the parties.

No one has ever accused you of ducking or dodging opponents. The same can be said for me. Let the duckers and the dodgers sit on the sidelines where they belong.

There can be only true ruler of the super middleweight division.

Is the real king of the 168-pounders you or is it me? I am ready to find out.


Sincerely,

UNDEFEATED WBA SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMP MIKKEL KESSLER"

 

[patchy4613]

The same Calzaghe who won a Vacant title and took a whopping 9 years for him to face a Champion in a Unification fight?
Well in the Super 6,both fighters in the final will be having their first Unification fight after being Champions for only 2 years.Much better than wasting 9 years fighting Milkmen and rematching a Bum who you had knocked out in one round.
Did not rematch Robin Reid,did not rematch anyone who came close to beating him.
If Froch wins the final he would have a much better Resume already since he would have done something Joe never dared to do,and thus face an Unbeaten World Champion plus Olympic Gold Medalist in his Physical Prime.
Ward will be 27 years old and is enjoying a winning streak that surpasses over 100 consecutive wins(Pro and Amateur). 

Totally agree mate.

Try telling this to some of the idiots I work with though!!

I did say MAYBE Calzaghe would have won the super 6. Maybe not. Even if he did, he'd have been given a bloody rough ride compared to the bums and punchbags he did fight.

Dam I knew I should have stayed out of this. Trying my best to leave Joe alone now he's retired! 

[The Cobra]

Totally agree mate.

Try telling this to some of the idiots I work with though!!

I did say MAYBE Calzaghe would have won the super 6. Maybe not. Even if he did, he'd have been given a bloody rough ride compared to the bums and punchbags he did fight.

Dam I knew I should have stayed out of this. Trying my best to leave Joe alone now he's retired! 

i dont get involved mate , carl would have smoked calzaghe .. end of 

[nikolidante]

i dont get involved mate , carl would have smoked calzaghe .. end of 

Just like Robin Reid did ! 

[DNO]

Joe Calzaghe would of pissed the super six if he was init, then slandered about the caliber of fighters that were in the tournament.

Red, Hopkins kicked Calzaghe's ass ? nut hugging mate, because Hopkins led and landed with his head 40+ times, and clinched 150 + times, if Cortez refereed it like the Mayweather Hatton fight, you would of seen a dominant performance. Hopkins shouldn't of been allowed to fight the way he did for a start.

Joe also won by 4 clear rounds, the only thing that made it look close was the knockdown, and Jermain Tayler knocked down Carl Froch. So whats your point about Hopkins flooring him ? You're not making any clear sense in comparison, he got up he won.

Clinton Woods beat Glen Johnson a much *younger* Glen Johnson. So whats your point about Froch beating him, he's a bum.

Ward's going to win this tournament easy anyways, so Froch's legacy will be in tatters on the comparison to the Calzaghe legacy.

Hope Carl wins, hell of a chin and tough, but that's it. Takes more at the elite level, he's a good world champion, but not the next level the pound for pound list shall we say.

Won? Possibly. Pissed? No chance. Prime-Calzaghe Vs. current Ward is a very close fight. I think he would just take it, but no way would it be easy.

[grizzlyadams]

Calzaghe was a superb boxer and 'may have' spanked many of the top 12st fighters of the current era. He was very talented, tough to beat and his schooling of jeff lacy was nigh on punch perfect and his performance to turn around the kessler fight was gutsy and truly world class. I believe he did beat hopkins because although hopkins landed the nicer punches, b-hop simply didn't work hard enough to dictate any tactics and simply tried to nick it. He got swallowed up by the workrate and punch vairety of the welshman. I don't personally class the Jones fight as a real fight but more of a setanta-sponsored paycheque/spar.

Carl Froch is not as naturally talented but is not only willing, but desperate to work his way through tough opposition in order to be as good as he can be. I think carl is great for british boxing and I wish him all the best against andre ward. I personally hold froch as being on the verge of trumping joe's achievements because of this unbelieveable run of fights he has had and his eagerness to consistently be in these fights. It is my opinion that these fights have made him a better more rounded fighter and I think, win or lose, he can improve again for the ward fight and his home coming.

I first saw froch fight rybacki and then pascal. I was disappointed with carl and the way he insisted in going toe to toe when you could see he had the reach, jab and skills to win the fight in a more comfortable fashion. I regarded him as someone who was going to repeatedly make tough fights difficult for himself. The closing rounds against pascal showed just how well he could box as he listened to his corner, lengthened his punching and consolidated a narrow, but strong lead in a close fight.

Against taylor he got comfortably outboxed (not to mention a constant ear bashing between rounds from mccracken) before taylor dramatically succumbed in the closing stages.

Didn't see the dirrel fight so can't comment there.

Against kessler I think the desire to trump calzaghe and stop kessler blinded him from any form of gameplan. He thought with his conkers that night and pitched a war against a fighter we all thought was on his way out. But kessler used the jab, footwork and a great body attack to slow down carl.

I think this loss was the best thing that ever happened to him because in the performances since then he looks like a fighter who is fighting with plan a, b and c and listening to his corner. When he boxes behind the jab, takes a step back or to the side and then follows up with a quick flurry he looks truly world class. It is a style that maximises his best assets of reach, jab and power. I do not believe carl has the reflexes to slip, trade and counter against another quick fighter, I think he is to easy to hit in all honesty. But I think with this style (which rob has been trying to impose all along) he has the best style for him because he upsets the opponents rhythm and gives himself the chance to dictate the action and counter effectively. The way he rubbed out all johnsons good work was impressive and stopped the jamaican getting a second sniff at anything (scored that fight wider second time I watched it).

I think what I'm trying to get at is that carl has been through the action and has come out with only one loss and looks a much better fighter than when he started his journey. If he beats ward then he will cap a stunning run. If he loses so be it, he took his shot. I think with the right tactics ward is beatable, carl has to move his head work behind the jab, work the body and progressively put take the american out of his comfort zone. It won't be easy and if he strays from the plan in favour of trying to test wards whiskers then I can see him getting cut up and stopped but it's a 50-50 fight in my eyes because ward hasn't had to fight anyone with froch's style or durability. If he follows it up with a revenge win over kessler, the pascal rematch and another top class win then I think he trumps calzaghe quite considerably overrall.

Unbeaten records are overrated and are a cancer of boxing. I stopped boxing some time ago, disheartened at losing spars and losing fights. I was really hard on myself every time I got beat in sparring and it stopped me progressing. When I look back now I realise that I was learning so much. Now as a coach I am gutted at the amount of talented boxers I see walk away because they think that being a good fighter means never getting beat or getting hit. That pressure is perpetuated by this obessession with an 0 in the pro game.

Imo, there are only two ways to become a good, or eventually great, fighter: one part of it is great sparring and the other is great fights. Anything else is just potential and could've, would've and should've's. I think carl is a great example of this and should be commended for his record not chastised for not having a 1 instead of an 0.