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Author Topic: Super Six casualties - an examination  (Read 1314 times)
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deno
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2011, 08:10:11 PM »

What would happen if he fought one of these youngsters (Groves Cleverly ) and lost where would he go then ?
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2011, 08:10:11 PM »

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Brick Top
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« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2011, 08:15:52 PM »

What would happen if he fought one of these youngsters (Groves Cleverly ) and lost where would he go then ?

Perhaps enjoy his retirement, the passing of the torch
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King Cotto
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« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2011, 09:48:19 PM »

How bad of a move do people think it would be for someone like Groves or Degale to take a punt at Carl now?

I am only thinking that with Carl's exposure being higher than ever and someone like Groves who is gaining intrest by the fight, it is a fight Groves could lose and still easily have a great career ahead of them.

Not long ago Degale was rumoured with a fight with Pavlick so it would not shock me to see a offer come out of the blue from either camp, more likely Degale than Groves though as George seems to be aware he is not ready for that level yet.

It would not offer Carl that much but it would be a return to winning ways in what could be billed as a decent domestic clash.

No point for Carl really, imo. It's Kessler he should go after - for himself and the fans. And the VW would happily oblige.
Degale didn't even want to spar with Carl. WTF, why hand him the lamplight?
Team Groves are too savy. They are building Groves up nicely.
Still, it's a keep busy fight against a kinda credible opponent after a thorough break that I would advise.
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Tyskrum
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Carl Froch vs Mikkel Kessler - IBF/WBA reg.


« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2011, 12:45:46 AM »

Wow! This thread is the most Carl biased thread I've seen so far.
What's the reason for Carls next loss? That it's full moon or half moon? Fight is too close to easter which he wanted to spend with his son that he couldn't concentrate? Or maybe the shoelaces was tied wrong?

Come on guys get over it. Carl lost to a better fighter anyday!

Let's have Froch vs Kessler II - I still believe Kessler takes it again.  Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2011, 12:45:46 AM »

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Tim2366
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2011, 12:58:24 AM »

Wow! This thread is the most Carl biased thread I've seen so far.
What's the reason for Carls next loss? That it's full moon or half moon? Fight is too close to easter which he wanted to spend with his son that he couldn't concentrate? Or maybe the shoelaces was tied wrong?

Come on guys get over it. Carl lost to a better fighter anyday!

Let's have Froch vs Kessler II - I still believe Kessler takes it again.  Smiley

Comng from a Kessler fan? behave mate I remeber the excuses flooding in when Ward and Calzaghe beat Kessler.
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Tyskrum
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Carl Froch vs Mikkel Kessler - IBF/WBA reg.


« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2011, 01:34:51 AM »

Comng from a Kessler fan? behave mate I remeber the excuses flooding in when Ward and Calzaghe beat Kessler.

You're absolutely right that there's been alot of excuses from the Kessler fans on those fights. Like a broken hand against Calzaghe and the headbutts against Ward, and some of the excuses are fair enough others are just bitter. But even without these factors I would still have favored Calzaghe and Ward to beat Kessler at that time.

Reason I wanna see a Ward vs Kessler II, is to see how much Montoya in the corner can do for Kessler in such a fight, because he's already done alot.

Alot of you guys' posts counts especially Kessler out of the game, like he has no chance against Froch in a rematch. Well I think he has good chances.  Smiley

I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (even though you probably think I am), I just think that "Carl is too tired to fight because he has fought away for most of his S6 fights" is a bit tame of an excuse. It's not an advantage to fight away, but it doesn't make him more tired. Besides he should feel comfortable fighting away after this many away fights.
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Tim2366
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2011, 01:48:45 AM »

You're absolutely right that there's been alot of excuses from the Kessler fans on those fights. Like a broken hand against Calzaghe and the headbutts against Ward, and some of the excuses are fair enough others are just bitter. But even without these factors I would still have favored Calzaghe and Ward to beat Kessler at that time.

Reason I wanna see a Ward vs Kessler II, is to see how much Montoya in the corner can do for Kessler in such a fight, because he's already done alot.

Alot of you guys' posts counts especially Kessler out of the game, like he has no chance against Froch in a rematch. Well I think he has good chances.  Smiley

I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (even though you probably think I am), I just think that "Carl is too tired to fight because he has fought away for most of his S6 fights" is a bit tame of an excuse. It's not an advantage to fight away, but it doesn't make him more tired. Besides he should feel comfortable fighting away after this many away fights.

Thats more of a reason for Froch having his next fight in England rather than an excuse for the Ward defeat....however I would question how other fighters would cope had they had the same run as Froch. Would Bute of came out of that run undefeated?

Id hate for anyone to think Kesslers finished and should he fight Froch and lose I wouldnt want to hear people saying Kesslers washed up. I still think on the right day Froch can beat Kessler or Bute but we will see.
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Mal
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2011, 06:33:39 AM »

I believe Froch would come back better and fresher if he takes a good long break, relax the body and mind a little to recharge the batteries.

I said the otherday that it'd be bordering on career suicide if he fought Bute next up and especially in Canada, looking back that was perhaps a little over the top but I don't think it's too far fetched if Bute was to say whip him. He would be pushed to the bottom of the scrap pile and wouldn't be in much of a position to bargain against other top calibre opponents, chances are he'd be offered peanuts, expected to chase them and would be left to deal with the dregs.

I reckon Bute would be rubbing his hands together at the moment with the thought in mind of baiting Froch to Canada first up. As far as I'm concerned, it would be a move that Team Froch would later regret.

If he is hell bent on Bute next up and doesn't want to take a step back, insist on it being in Nottingham. Put Bute in a position which he hasn't expieranced before, that of the crowd baying for his blood and is against him. It would be intersting to see how he goes and the crowd ain't cheering his every shot.

Any talk concerning Kessler at the moment is pointless. He has Steiglitz to give a hiding too in April and will probably be due back in July at the earliest. Froch I don't think is that patient to wait until then but we'll see.

I will say though that I believe Kessler is far from finished and will be more dangerous next time out so Tim, careful what you wish for mate. I believe that break that he took done him wonders and he has came back better for it. The hunger is still there and in his last fight looked very crisp and sharp, had that jab back in order and showed a good array of punches and combinations. He has not shown any signs of slowing down and with a great chin, and a fine trainer teaching him new things everyday, is he really someone you would want to see Froch in with next? I know I wouldn't that's why I'm hopefull Froch takes his foot of the gas and takes a lesser opponent. It doesn't have to be some tin can he can bowl over inside a round, some fringe level guy who he has to take serious but not to the point of putting to much of a drain on him.

Oscar had a stack of big fights against the best on offer but still took tune up's in between fights, Louis used to fight a bum a month they say, Pacman does it, so too Mayweather.


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Tim2366
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2011, 01:57:07 PM »

I wouldnt wana see froch fight kessler next....its a lose lose, i dont think kesslers finished but should carl beat him than thats what everyone will say. When Froch lost to kessler the last thing he should of been doing was taking on abraham in finland but it was make or break and winnig that fight put him back on track the same as if he now takes on bute.
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2011, 01:57:07 PM »

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Mal
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« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2011, 04:40:01 AM »

i dont think kesslers finished but should carl beat him than thats what everyone will say.

People could say it, it wouldn't make it a fact though, providing he looks the goods against Steiglitz which I have no doubt he will. Not that the Russien born German based fighter is top class or anything of that stature, I think he is fringe level at best. But sometimes you can tell alot about a fighter whether he has improved or slipped against these type of opponents and this is the perfect fight for Kessler to see where he's at, what he has left to offer. He will be tipped by just about everyone to blow Stieglitz out of the water and if he doesn't, then people will probably be right in saying that he's finished at the top level, that he's on the slide and it will go on. Could be possibly down to styles, could be an off night or perhaps couldn't pull the trigger on the night and get into any form of rythem. Fans will make their own conclusions like they always do but I'm very confident with Kessler only being 32, hasn't really taken to many beatings and with the backing of Montoya, a guy with a stack of experience, he still has plenty to offer.

The thing is with Boxing is we the fans tend to over analyse fighters too much, I'm guilty for it myself. How many times do we see a fighter who is expected to blast straight through another bloke only to look sluggish and mediocre and then come out and fight the fight of his life against a fighter who was tipped to beat him easy? All to often it happens and I can think of roughly a dozen cases off the top of my head.

Holyfied used to struggle with blown up Cruiserweights and then give all the Heavies a run for their money, even beating some of the best getting around. Calzaghe would look flat, lazy and sluggish at times against tomatto cans and then put in a brilliant display against fighters who were tipped to beat him or give him a good going over.

Just recently we had Pac copping a hammering over his performances against Mosley & Marquez with many saying he is finished and others saying that Mayweather will now beat him judged on those two fights alone when in reaility, his style is more suited for Floyds in many respects then that of say Marquez.

I'm trying hard here not to sway off topic as I usually do but honestly, what happened in those fights will make no difference to what happens in a fight with Floyd. Different styles, completely different fighters and on a different night.

It's now the same with Froch, some are asking has he had enough? Is he finished at the top level? All on the back of one clear cut loss. If he fights Bute or Kessler next up, there is every possibility that he comes roaring out of the corner and flogs em.

I think personally he should take a good rest, it's all he needs and will be better for it in my view. If he does decide to go with Bute next up, I'll be behind him, just wouldn't be as confident as I probably would be if he had taken a good rest and took a lesser opponent first.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 06:42:49 AM by Mal » Logged
Box4life
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« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2011, 05:58:16 PM »

Im not going with the travel etc .... hurt his performance .... If thats the case Carl lost at home to Dirrell because of Dirrell having to travel ....(I think he lost that fight anyway but just my opinion)
There are World Champs and then there are Elite Super Star World Champs ...Carl is a good World Champ ......
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Skratch-Alien
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« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2011, 07:19:08 PM »

Im not going with the travel etc .... hurt his performance .... If thats the case Carl lost at home to Dirrell because of Dirrell having to travel ....(I think he lost that fight anyway but just my opinion)
There are World Champs and then there are Elite Super Star World Champs ...Carl is a good World Champ ......

Did'nt realise Dirrell had been travelling all over the place and away from home fighting top level fighters before he came to Notts Roll Eyes
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Box4life
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« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2011, 07:27:37 PM »

Did'nt realise Dirrell had been travelling all over the place and away from home fighting top level fighters before he came to Notts Roll Eyes
I was just saying traveling for a fight  isnt the reason for the loss.... ok Carl had to travel 3400 miles and Ward only had to fly 2500 miles ..... The better fighter won .....
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« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2011, 07:33:37 PM »

I was just saying traveling for a fight  isnt the reason for the loss.... ok Carl had to travel 3400 miles and Ward only had to fly 2500 miles ..... The better fighter won .....

I think people were referring to the ammount of travelling during the tournament as a whole.I think you know this too Wink
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Box4life
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« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2011, 07:39:00 PM »

I think people were referring to the ammount of travelling during the tournament as a whole.I think you know this too Wink
I know what they mean....but alot of fighters travel and dont seem to have trouble...most travel for training camps then for media then for the fights.... This is what they get paid to do... and most of the time at least for the big fights its first class or a G6 ...its not like there on a bus ...  Wink
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