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Author Topic: Congress Approve Jack Johnson pardon  (Read 3973 times)
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jimjack
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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2009, 06:05:35 PM »



Cheers mate.
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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2009, 06:05:35 PM »

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Tomatron
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« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2009, 05:34:48 PM »

I am not sure if im right Rob, but im sure Dempsey and Willie Meehan fought 5 times, 2 draws, 2 wins to Meehan and 1 to Dempsey, a little rivalry but im sure a lot of these fights, were exhibitions or shorter fights than the 12-15 rounds +, infact im sure they were exhibitions of 4 rounds, Im almost certain. Interesting Meehan also fought Sam Langford in one of these type fights and won on points I’m sure but I’ll do the necessary research to back that up.

Im sure all the fights that Meehan beat Dempsey were before Dempsey became a top fighter intil 1919 ish, from recollection im sure Dempsey was a promising brawler, who didn’t really hit the big time intil 1920 ish . I think all the fights were 4-6 rounds, so I don’t think we can really say that Dempsey was scared of Harry Wills, im sure he came out and said he wanted to fight Wills, and he wasn’t scared of him, I know he would say that but I doubt Jack was scared of him, very much so. I also doubt soley on the Meehan results we can conclude that Dempsey wouldn’t have beaten Wills, based of 4-6 round exhibitions, as Dempsey could be outboxed especially early in fights, and a decent tactician would take advantage of that, Dempsey could also knock you down 7 times in a round ask jess willard, but if he didnt beat you to a pulp early on he could be outboxed. (Althought if the willard fight happened now, he wouldnt have been knocked down 7 times)

On Johnson being no angel, I think he did what at the time was best for him, Langford may have beaten Johnson the oppinions I have read, is that it would have been close, but maybe Langford slightly had the edge. But Johnson as bad as he was, is doing what a lot of fighters do now, make the fights that make him the most money, I again doubt very much Johnson was afraid of Langford, I think that Johnson would have had the pyscological edge knowing that he had beaten him before, regardless of his age.
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pete postlethwaite
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2009, 12:31:22 AM »

A little late in the day.
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Gere in Galapagos.
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« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2009, 03:26:09 AM »

Dont know much about Harry Wills, any articles knocking about?
Harry Wills will always be rememberd as the Guy who was denied a shot against Dempsey becuase of his skin color.
Harry Wills hit his peak from 1920-1926 and he was the number 1 Contender for Dempsey's Title.
However Dempsey's Promoters refused to stage the fight saying they won't stage a Title Bout between a Black and white fighter.
Even though Dempsey was Part Cherokee Indian,he was marketed as White/Irish and so he never faced a single Black opponent throughout his antire career.
By late 1926 Harry Wills was tired of winning aimless Eliminators and still not getting a Title shot,he was dispirited and lost his Prime .In 1927 he was knocked out senselessly by a Spaniard and that Video can be seen on YOUtube.
Many Dempsey apologists have used that Video of Wills getting knocked out badly to justify the theory that he was no match for Dempsey.
They forget that he was 37 years old by then and was demoralised mentally by the Politics of the time.
I believe If he had fought Dempsey in 1922 he would have taken the Title coz that was his Utmost Peak..
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Southern Storm
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« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2009, 03:34:09 AM »

Johnson was no angel

he also didnt have as much guts as you may think he did, he neglected to fight the linear and true contender to his title, Sam Langford, because he was black and Johnson knew he could make more money fighting white fighters.
I agree with you on this one.
Johnson was the Mayweather of his time coz early in his career he fought against Top Notch opponents until he won the Title and became the Money guy.After that he began to cherry pick his Opponents who would earn him most Cash.He even fought Blown up Welterweight Stanley Katchel and other Hyped up White Fighters ,rather than the Talanted Black Contenders of his time.
He fought Sam Langford when the guy was still filling out from being a Blown up lightweight.By 1910 he had Grown into a Legit Heavyweight with tremendous Power and Ring skills.
Johnson knew the risk of fighting Langford at that time so he picked hyped up white Opponents to make more Cash for less risk. 
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Southern Storm
jimjack
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« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2009, 07:17:50 AM »

I agree with you on this one.
Johnson was the Mayweather of his time coz early in his career he fought against Top Notch opponents until he won the Title and became the Money guy.After that he began to cherry pick his Opponents who would earn him most Cash.He even fought Blown up Welterweight Stanley Katchel and other Hyped up White Fighters ,rather than the Talanted Black Contenders of his time.
He fought Sam Langford when the guy was still filling out from being a Blown up lightweight.By 1910 he had Grown into a Legit Heavyweight with tremendous Power and Ring skills.
Johnson knew the risk of fighting Langford at that time so he picked hyped up white Opponents to make more Cash for less risk. 

This maybe true, but it doesn't make him a criminal does it. The thread is regarding a pardon from congress in relation to his reltionships with white women.
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motoriser
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« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2009, 12:48:43 PM »

This maybe true, but it doesn't make him a criminal does it. The thread is regarding a pardon from congress in relation to his reltionships with white women.
You misunderstood my post.
I agree with the Pardon coz he did nothing wrong to be convicted.
I was only agreeing with the part about Johnson avioding tough opposition after he won the Title.
But regardless of that,Jack Johnson is a Historic figure who deserves to be Pardoned.
Thanks.
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Southern Storm
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« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2009, 07:09:39 PM »

A little late in the day.


Precisely.
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LondonRingRules
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« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2009, 06:35:02 PM »


When people make all-time lists Dempsey gets included but fighters like Langford and Wills are ignored because they supposedly never were Heavyweight Champ.
It's interesting that Wills beat 2 fighters who then went on too beat Dempsey. Willie Meehan a white fighter lost too Wills then went onto beat Dempsey twice.
Infact after Wills lost to Langford and his fiance committed suicide, Wills fought and beat John Lester Johnson a month later-in Lester's next bout he gave Dempsey a sound beating.
Dempsey did sign to fight Wills when Wills was 35/36 and on the decline but Dempsey's promoter/managers Kearns and Rickard pulled the plug.

-------- I'm sure you know how high I rank Wills and esp Langford, but some corrections in order.

If you start including all the fighters who beat fighters who beat fighters on each other's win/loss records, you'd have a mess except for Rocky's record.

Lester Johnson/Dempsey is generally recorded as a draw, significant that Dempsey could go into Johnson's home environs as an raw, unknown slugger and earn a draw.

Dempsey had to leave Kearns and Rickard just to sign to fight Wills. That was a death sentence to 3 yrs of his prime, but made his fortune when he landed in Hollywood movies, plays and self promoted exhibitions across the world.

Dempsey beat fighters Johnson wouldn't defend against in spectacular fashion, Gunboat Smith, Carl Morris, and Carpentier to name a few not to mention what he did to Willard.

That it took 5 yrs and thousands of meetings just to get a worthless pardon of JJohnson perhaps the canary in the coal mine signal of democracies failing.
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What would Big George do?
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« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2009, 06:24:20 PM »

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-pardon-jack-johnson/story?id=9310901


Justice Department Won't Recommend Posthumous Pardon for Nation's First Black Boxing Champ
Will President Obama Step in to Clear Jack Johnson's Name?
By KAREN TRAVERS
Dec. 11, 2009



The Justice Department won't recommend a posthumous pardon for Jack Johnson, the nation's first African-American heavyweight boxing champion, but signaled that President Obama has the authority to grant one.

Johnson was sentenced to prison nearly a century ago for his open affair with a white woman but his biggest crime may have been his years of dominance in the ring.

In a letter to Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., the Justice Department's pardon attorney, Ronald L. Rodgers, said it is general policy not to process posthumous pardon requests. The letter was in response to one King and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., had sent to the president.

Given the time that has passed since Johnson's case, the department's limited resources "are best dedicated to requests submitted by persons who can truly benefit from a grant of the request," Rodgers wrote last week in the letter that was released today.

Johnson held the heavyweight title for nearly seven years but the biggest punch came from the nation's justice system. Now, Johnson supporters say, Obama has the opportunity to lift the boxer's legacy off the canvas.

Rodgers noted in his letter from the Justice Department that the president has the constitutional right to pardon or commute sentences "at his sole discretion, guided when he sees fit by the advice of the Pardon Attorney."

The Justice Department attorney pointed out that both President Clinton and President George W. Bush issued one posthumous pardon.

King, who, with McCain, has led the effort in Congress to get a posthumous pardon for Johnson, is still putting the pressure on the White House.

"The Justice Department is stating that, historically, it is the president who grants posthumous pardons," King said. "I agree and respectfully urge that president Obama grant a pardon to Jack Johnson."

The White House declined to comment on the pardon request and the Justice Department's letter to King.

The boxing champ was railroaded by racism and jealousy over his athletic prowess, King and McCain said. The two boxing enthusiasts have worked together for several years to get a resolution supporting a pardon for Johnson. This year, for the first time, the measure passed both the House and Senate.

McCain said he is confident that Obama will issue the pardon, eventually.

"It was a miscarriage of justice and one that deserves to be corrected," McCain told ABC News in October. "It was a stain on our national honor."

King echoed the sentiment.

"This is long overdue," he said. "We can rectify that and we should rectify that."

The resolution notes that Johnson should receive a posthumous pardon "to expunge a racially motivated abuse" by the justice system from the "annals of criminal justice in the United States."

It says that the charges against Johnson were brought up "clearly to keep him away from the boxing ring where he continued to defeat his white opponents."

King said, "A terrible wrong was done to him. He was unjustly prosecuted, unjustly convicted. He was basically destroyed at the height of his career."
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