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[Havoc]

Just like everywhere else we have staff shortages. Therefore we have had to pull people from other departments to cover our night shifts.

Anyway they lady got they just threw her in it. I am repsonsible for training all newbies but they didn't even allow me to train her so this lady has training in facility management at all.

This is the email I sent to my boss today.

"Good morning

I need to flag up some issues with the night staff.

I'd like to recommend that the night staff need dedicated training. They do their best but they do not have the knowledge to action standard or urgent jobs.

It is not fair to expect them to take over the running of this department with a crash course and limited understanding of the contracts and contractors.

A lot of mistakes have come up which we have been able to deal with and repair so far over the last few weeks.

However this morning there was an urgent job in the kitchens. The cookers had stopped working and the kitchen staff were not able to prepare breakfast on time for some V.I.P clients. This not only effects us be will have a knock on effect elsewhere. What would happen if there was a fire and the night staff do not know who to contact or how to deal with it?

I recommend that in future, whoever trains with us should spend a minimum of 2 weeks with us to get a good grounding in basic facility operations. Learning Concept systems is easy, learning the job is much a much more in depth process.

"Person A" will benefit the most from this as she hasn't had any proper training from us. If she is take over at night she needs to be properly trained.

I believe all the night staff need extra training. None of them have had any dedicated training from us. My colleague has offered to help me with training the night staff. He is a capable trainer and we can easily divide this between ourselves to minimise disruption to other areas.

Thank you for your time."

Here is the response

"Dear Nicky,

Thank you for highlighting your concerns on the training needs of the night team.

As I was not present during the initial training for the team, I cannot comment on whether they would have received adequate training or not.  There are a number of logistical and resource challenges in having a dedicated night team member relocate for 2 weeks of training during the day, which needs to be managed and planned against the overall rota and training plans.

From my perspective, investing in a 2 week training program isn't the answer to the challenges that we are currently facing.  It is more important for the team, to have the most up to date information to support the business needs, i.e a well documented, reader friendly and comprehensive manual (and training plan) that they can refer to.  From my understanding that you would have only provided me with this update last week…..can you confirm that these types of situations are included in the manual.

Be assured that this is now on my radar and I hope in working together, we can ensure that all relevant team members are confident and fully compliant in addressing all shift associated tasks as expected by the client."


In other words go f*ck yourself Nick! 

My response.

"Thank you for getting back to me.

I fully appreciate our limited resources, but in that case isn't it logical to make sure everyone is properly trained to offset our lack of resources?

With the best will in the world no manual will be able to cover every single thing that can go wrong over here. It is one thing reading a manual, but it is no substitute for on the job experience and learning from an experience operative. A manual cannot teach someone how to adapt in an reactive environment or to an emergency.

I shall do my best to keep everything updated on the manuals but I fear jobs will continue to go wrong without proper on the job training.

In any case thank you for response. We'll do our best to cover the gaps.

Regards."

Fact is my small team does the building and facility management for 10 buildings. We are responsible for everyones safety. My job cannot be learned from a manual you have to experiepence it. It's like learning boxing from a manual, it doesn't mean you can take a punch or have the fitness or relexes to dodge punches.

It is so frustrating when a manager won't even entertain an logical alternative!

[Socrates]

I honestly thought this was another thread about Kenny Dalglish 

[hoover]

I honestly thought this was another thread about Kenny Dalglish 

Ha ha ha ha brilliant

[HurricaneHig]

I honestly thought this was another thread about Kenny Dalglish 

Very good!! 

[Dexter_Morgan]

Just a point of note and not word for word but might help. The health and safety at work act 1974 clearly states it is the duty of the employer to provide suitable training for its employees to carry out duties within the working environment or words to those effects in the this situation perhaps quote that section in your next e-mail.

[presa]

Just a point of note and not word for word but might help. The health and safety at work act 1974 clearly states it is the duty of the employer to provide suitable training for its employees to carry out duties within the working environment or words to those effects in the this situation perhaps quote that section in your next e-mail.

exactly my thoughts dex. bloody irresponsible management there dude.

 

[hoover]

Health and Safety at work cuts a fine line in my opinion, whilst I think if used sensibly it is brilliant, saving people from injury or death in hazardous work places. The flip side to the coin however is bureaucracy gone mad, I was due to employ and apprentice recently, did the interviews offered some young person a role (we did not need to hire and the person would have added little value to the business but I thought we can, so why not do something positive). 5 days before the person was due to start I got and email from the apprenticeship company saying I needed to have a full H and S assessment of my office before the person starts, I would need to have a risk assessment done of the entire office, work stations, trained how to use boxes make tea, close ring binders, the list was exhaustive. there were pages and pages of stuff I had to complete in just a few days. It is a desk and a computer.....The Apprenticeship person said you should have been sent this months ago....sorry. The upshot was I had to pull the offer and the girl was let down, all because of excessive H and S

[Hitman]

I work in FM

Have done for two years now after moving away from my previous catering background, our company employs around 1500 people and we are a whole FM company covering cleaning in the majority of Barnsley's primary schools (Around 50) as well as various catering, courier, caretaking and grounds maintenance contracts.

In January i was asked to take over the Courier and Caretaking service which leaves me managing around 15 employees so i know the ball aches involved with staffing cover.

Can i ask, was the lady in question cover for management or manual workers? also is she in the job on a permanent, semi permanent or as and when basis?

[Red]

I have got years of experience from designing life safety systems for rolls Royce, boots etc.

Trust me when I say this, if shit hits the fan, it's the 'responsible person(s) that can be hit with an unlimited fine and/or imprisonment.

Not just the company.

If your wearing that hat - give it someone else.

Because 'where there is blame, there is a claim'

If the day staff are adequately trained and the night staff aren't then there is demonstratable problem that needs addressing.

[Havoc]

@Hitman.

The manager in question has just taken over and to be fair she is picking up the mess from the previous manager.

The new manager has done some restructuring of the night staff. In the meeting regarding this i said they will need to be trained to the same level of my day team, albeit the night isn't as busy as in the day. However the night guys need to be fully capable of dealing with an reactive jobs coming our way.  The nature of FM is that it is unpredictable at the best of times.

In any case she put the new night staff in place with no training. I walk in the morning after at 7am and walk into a sh*t storm. Therefore i sent the above email and she came back with a corporate bullsh*t answer.

I use a system called Concept which is dead easy to learn. i am also one of the system admins for it, setting up the workflows, contracts and so on which is a lot more difficult and a whole new ball game. What my manager fails to fathom, just because the basic functionality of concept is easy to learn, doesn't mean learning every contract for all 10 building and all 20 plus contractors we use for FM is just as easy. Let alone emergency procedures for power failures, floods and whatever else might come up. We nee people with the basic knowledge of the contracts but more importantly people who think on their feet. Hence my concerns!

Yeah it can be pain in the ass swapping people around to cover shifts. However, it is a simple as swapping two people around for them to train with my team. Fact is we will need to suffer a little now (i.e pulling people out for training) to gain a lot later. In any case this the night staff need to be able to cover for any FM problem so it's must have.

@Red

The day team consists of me and two others. We're meant to be a team of 6 but due to cut backs there is only 3 of us. We are all experienced and we have covered the same workload with 3 people as we did with 6. So i can safely say we know our jobs very well. I also do any assistant system admin for our systems (for no extra money, i had to absorb that when one of our managers was made redundant) So a lot of the time i have to come away and do other things. All of our contractors use our system as well so i have to take care of over 50 users which isn't easy.

I'm the most experienced person there, i lead the team but in unofficial capacity (I don't have the supervisor title even though i do that everyday) so i felt it fell to me to highlight this huge gap in our operation.

The new manager has NO EXPERIENCE in FM so this is why she fails to see the issue.

However, i got the go ahead today to train the staff. I went over her head because i pride myself being professional in what i do.

I backed all my emails up and printed hard copies so if the sh*t hits the fan all i will say is that i told you so.

[lurkyshaka]

The problem with many managers is that they think they know best, but all too often they don't. And they are unable to take constructive criticism onboard or admit when they've f*cked up.

So we end up with systems in place that don't work, p*ss people off and are sometimes potentially dangerous etc....because someone just can't bring themselves to admit that someone else can see a better way.

The best managers have the ability to listen and take onboard advise/ideas that other people have without taking offense or feeling challenged.

But all too often we find managers in place who are less qualified than the staff they are supposed to be managing.  They very often don't understand the actual working environment as well as the staff they are supposed to be managing, but feel that their position as manager gives them the right to ride rough shod over the staff.


Managers....don't get me started 

[Havoc]

The problem with many managers is that they think they know best, but all too often they don't. And they are unable to take constructive criticism onboard or admit when they've f*cked up.

So we end up with systems in place that don't work, p*ss people off and are sometimes potentially dangerous etc....because someone just can't bring themselves to admit that someone else can see a better way.

The best managers have the ability to listen and take onboard advise/ideas that other people have without taking offense or feeling challenged.

But all too often we find managers in place who are less qualified than the staff they are supposed to be managing.  They very often don't understand the actual working environment as well as the staff they are supposed to be managing, but feel that their position as manager gives them the right to ride rough shod over the staff.


Managers....don't get me started 

I have to agree in this case.

It's a case of not what you know but who you know.

[Laney]

Would a solution to this problem be for the experienced people who work days go on the night shift for a couple of months to show the untrained people what to do?

[SteveR]

Would a solution to this problem be for the experienced people who work days go on the night shift for a couple of months to show the untrained people what to do?

And pay a trainee and a trainer?

They want to do it on the cheap. Give them a manual then if it all goes tits up, "well they had all the information they needed"

[Laney]

I have only skimmed through this thread but my understanding is that there are 3 people working days and 10 people working nights. Simply switch 1 of the day people with one of the night people and the person who usually work days can train the night staff and the person who switches from nights will learn off the blokes working days. Simples.