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[Tito]

And a poll last year had the YES vote in the lead this was always going to be the weakest time for the yes vote.

Scotland gets £10k per population of head the rest of the UK averages at 8.5 k per head.

The City of London the people get £10.8k per head population 7.8 million

Population of Scotland 5 million so Londoners get a better deal than Scots.

We get a budget that covers everything we then allocate the money its not hard to understand our prescription our unis our health care all comes out of that budget we have 8% of the population but pay around 10% of the tax this excludes any other money north sea oil whisky water farming. I can't help it if at present were a fairly well off well run small country can I ? Also just so you know Scotland is Europe's largest Oil and Gas producer.

Yes but do you think all these relatively small Scottish Oil and Gas companies are going to be happy paying all this corporation tax directly to a Scottish Government effectively propping it up with nothing in return. Why is it in there interest who they pay tax too unless there is something in it for them.
What is stopping Hydrasun and other Scottish oil companies registering there companies in Gibralter, Caymens and Bermuda paying a trickle of corporation tax instead of the Billions that will be needed to cover the short fall from London. All big business have done this Amazon, Boots, William Hill, Top Shop and Vodafone have cheated the treasury out of billions what is stopping the major scottish companies doing it.
The SNP are getting cosy with all these oil companies but full independence isn't going to create tens of thousands of extra jobs in any sector as there as to be growth and exports. Ireland's exports were hit hard whilst being in the Eurozone which resulted in them being bailed out by Britain last year.

[dmp]

and well done scotland 9 beating australia 6 yesterday

[SCOTTY'S SOBER]

scottish and british 

scots who vote for independence are like turkeys voting for xmas

[Dexter_Morgan]

Yes but do you think all these relatively small Scottish Oil and Gas companies are going to be happy paying all this corporation tax directly to a Scottish Government effectively propping it up with nothing in return. Why is it in there interest who they pay tax too unless there is something in it for them.
What is stopping Hydrasun and other Scottish oil companies registering there companies in Gibralter, Caymens and Bermuda paying a trickle of corporation tax instead of the Billions that will be needed to cover the short fall from London. All big business have done this Amazon, Boots, William Hill, Top Shop and Vodafone have cheated the treasury out of billions what is stopping the major scottish companies doing it.
The SNP are getting cosy with all these oil companies but full independence isn't going to create tens of thousands of extra jobs in any sector as there as to be growth and exports. Ireland's exports were hit hard whilst being in the Eurozone which resulted in them being bailed out by Britain last year.

Clearly you have no understanding of how licenses within the petrol chemical industry work so you'd have no understand of why the money is guaranteed to return to the government ?

No Britain didn't bail out Ireland on its own it was one of the Eurozone countries who helped with a bailout.

[jimjack]

This is a good debate, and it's really educating me on the matter. From everything I've seen I still stand by my original stance the that both countries would be better as one rather than separate. Look at the co-op and somerfield, separate they had no real buying power and were miles behind the major mults. Together they have become a major player with considerable influence.

[Dexter_Morgan]

This is a good debate, and it's really educating me on the matter. From everything I've seen I still stand by my original stance the that both countries would be better as one rather than separate. Look at the co-op and somerfield, separate they had no real buying power and were miles behind the major mults. Together they have become a major player with considerable influence.

As countries what do we buy ?

[Dexter_Morgan]

Just reading the latest survey results and 40% back independence with around 50% voting no and 10% undecided.

[Bonters]

Just reading the latest survey results and 40% back independence with around 50% voting no and 10% undecided.

It's a little controversial, I know, but do you think that such major and complex issues are right for a public vote?  It's a sad fact that many, many people will be influenced by issues totally unrelated to the core subject, and vote in a given way for entirely the wrong reasons.  However we try to dress it up, and no matter how PC everyone is, that will always remain a sad fact.  Also, where do we draw the line with everything else?  Do we just put every major issue to a public vote?  And if so, do we really need a Government at all?  And is it not just a cop-out by those in power to put these things to the public?  They were elected to govern, after all.  An interesting subject, I find.

[Alba]

It's a little controversial, I know, but do you think that such major and complex issues are right for a public vote?  It's a sad fact that many, many people will be influenced by issues totally unrelated to the core subject, and vote in a given way for entirely the wrong reasons.  However we try to dress it up, and no matter how PC everyone is, that will always remain a sad fact.  Also, where do we draw the line with everything else?  Do we just put every major issue to a public vote?  And if so, do we really need a Government at all?  And is it not just a cop-out by those in power to put these things to the public?  They were elected to govern, after all.  An interesting subject, I find.

ok , lets look at this ...people are crying out for a vote for us staying in the European Economic Area,by Your Loigic (not the Daily Mail this time because im sure they have asked for it ) Some people shouldn't be allowed to vote on that ? What about the AV vote? Certain people shouldn't be allowed to vote. In this day and age its good to see a party sticking to there election pledges

Its like taking us back 2/3 hundred years when people who were born into Money or Status were allowed to vote.What next Bonters Women, you wont want them getting the vote ...

[Dexter_Morgan]

It's a little controversial, I know, but do you think that such major and complex issues are right for a public vote?  It's a sad fact that many, many people will be influenced by issues totally unrelated to the core subject, and vote in a given way for entirely the wrong reasons.  However we try to dress it up, and no matter how PC everyone is, that will always remain a sad fact.  Also, where do we draw the line with everything else?  Do we just put every major issue to a public vote?  And if so, do we really need a Government at all?  And is it not just a cop-out by those in power to put these things to the public?  They were elected to govern, after all.  An interesting subject, I find.

If its not up to the people of Scotland to vote then who is it up to ? Sorry but its an easy Vote Yes to independence and No to stay in the Union Yes to Devo Max No to Devo Max. Interestingly the SNP are putting a bill before the Scottish parliament to allow anyone over the age of 16 to vote and rightly so it is there future.

The Scottish people already voted in the late 70's as yes to independence 53.6% ( or something ) said yes however we were shafted out of it and then spent the next 12 years having Thatcher spank us like naughty little children.

If you look at Scotland here we have a devolved nation and all that brings being controlled by a government who has 1 MP and 3 MSP's in the entire country clearly we have rejected central government policy and rightly or wrongly we should be further removed from the equation. I don't want a say in what happens in England or Wales so why should someone in London dictate what happens in Scotland ?

I reckon most Scots would be happy to stay in the union if Devo Max was granted all scottish money staying in Scotland, Scotland paying for itself and setting its own budget, tax policy pension policy and to an extent foreign policy.

[jimjack]

As countries what do we buy ?

Debt.
We also sell produce. Scotland or the rest of Britain trying to do this seperately will not have the same gravitas as doing it together. Scotland independantly would suffer much more than the rest I would imagine though.

The major stumbling block for Scottish independance will surely be the currency, what will it be? Would it be possible to keep the pound? Probably not imo, would you go to the Euro? Will the euro still be going in 2014? An independant scottish currency would not only decrease the value of everything in Scotland, everything coming out of Scotland, but would also cut back on tourism by a fair chunk I imagine.

Like I said previously, I am British and proud. Perhaps if I was a Celt I would feel different and want my own identity rather than being run from what some see as a ruling Country. However my main concern would be the fact that if Scotland did gain independance would I personally be affected. Possibly I would in the form of additional bail out taxes, possibly not. Personally I would rather keep Scotland as part of Great Britain so I dont have to chnge money when I go up there to work.

[jimjack]

If its not up to the people of Scotland to vote then who is it up to ? Sorry but its an easy Vote Yes to independence and No to stay in the Union Yes to Devo Max No to Devo Max. Interestingly the SNP are putting a bill before the Scottish parliament to allow anyone over the age of 16 to vote and rightly so it is there future.

The Scottish people already voted in the late 70's as yes to independence 53.6% ( or something ) said yes however we were shafted out of it and then spent the next 12 years having Thatcher spank us like naughty little children.

If you look at Scotland here we have a devolved nation and all that brings being controlled by a government who has 1 MP and 3 MSP's in the entire country clearly we have rejected central government policy and rightly or wrongly we should be further removed from the equation. I don't want a say in what happens in England or Wales so why should someone in London dictate what happens in Scotland ?

I reckon most Scots would be happy to stay in the union if Devo Max was granted all scottish money staying in Scotland, Scotland paying for itself and setting its own budget, tax policy pension policy and to an extent foreign policy.

There should be some kind of IQ test to qualify to vote on such matters. Both sides should submit the manifesto, and you must read and take a test to see if you understand the issues. If you fail, no vote. I would also do the same for people wanting kids.

[Dexter_Morgan]

There should be some kind of IQ test to qualify to vote on such matters. Both sides should submit the manifesto, and you must read and take a test to see if you understand the issues. If you fail, no vote. I would also do the same for people wanting kids.

Lol or those voting in a general election ?

[Dexter_Morgan]

Debt.
We also sell produce. Scotland or the rest of Britain trying to do this seperately will not have the same gravitas as doing it together. Scotland independantly would suffer much more than the rest I would imagine though.

The major stumbling block for Scottish independance will surely be the currency, what will it be? Would it be possible to keep the pound? Probably not imo, would you go to the Euro? Will the euro still be going in 2014? An independant scottish currency would not only decrease the value of everything in Scotland, everything coming out of Scotland, but would also cut back on tourism by a fair chunk I imagine.

Like I said previously, I am British and proud. Perhaps if I was a Celt I would feel different and want my own identity rather than being run from what some see as a ruling Country. However my main concern would be the fact that if Scotland did gain independance would I personally be affected. Possibly I would in the form of additional bail out taxes, possibly not. Personally I would rather keep Scotland as part of Great Britain so I dont have to chnge money when I go up there to work.

Its a good post but there is no substance to it everything I have read and most economics believe Scotland would thrive selling its own goods right away we could reduce export duty attracting investment or Cut VAT to increase tourism spending believe it or not were a very rich little nation.

Scotland has a currency its called the Scottish pound why can't we keep it ? We have to change money when we go down south the amount of places that won't accept the Scottish pound is unreal.

Why would we suffer selling our Water to England won't you guys need water anymore ? Why will we suffer selling Whisky to the global market ? Why will we suffer selling Gas ? Why will we suffer selling Oil explain to me why all of a sudden we won't be as good at selling it ?

Do you know by 2020 Scotland 'hopes' to be running the entire country on renewable energy sources however were being hindered because we can't invest our own money in the sector and do you also know that by 2030 we hoped to be supplying two thirds of the rest of the UK's power from our renewable energy sources ?

Scotland has industry it has ideas its being held back from growth by not being able to invest itself.

[Bonters]

ok , lets look at this ...people are crying out for a vote for us staying in the European Economic Area,by Your Loigic (not the Daily Mail this time because im sure they have asked for it ) Some people shouldn't be allowed to vote on that ? What about the AV vote? Certain people shouldn't be allowed to vote. In this day and age its good to see a party sticking to there election pledges

Its like taking us back 2/3 hundred years when people who were born into Money or Status were allowed to vote.What next Bonters Women, you wont want them getting the vote ...

Ha, I often rag my missus that it's all been downhill since they got the bloody vote!  But seriously, I wasn't actually saying I support any refusal to give the public their say, just that it is a valid argument, worthy of some consideration.  I actually believe that with a democratic system, we all get our chance to elect those we want to govern us.  If they fall short of our expectations, we can then vote them out at the next election and put someone else in.  BUT in the meantime, they should govern  -  that's what they're there for.  To just put every major issue to a public vote is a dereliction of their duty, surely?  It must  be recognised that an awful lot of the voters on an issue like this will be motivated by entirely different influences, and will have little in depth knowledge of the long term consequences of what they are voting for.  It's not a class, or money, issue at all.  It's just that the romantic ideal of Robert The Bruce will likely make the separatist heart beat faster and harder, rather than the socio-economic issues which are more relevant today.