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Author Topic: Ward vs Kovalev "My Fight" documentary - must watch  (Read 6408 times)
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lurkyshaka
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« Reply #90 on: November 20, 2016, 05:56:51 PM »

This seems to be basically one of those fights where any scorecard would have been acceptable but not without debate. I personally found it impossible to score due to the sheer volume of holding and wrestling up close. Ward would land occasional classy pot hots or Kovalev would land with the jab and fail to follow up with anything meaningful (after the knockdown obviously). I didn't see enough from either fighter to say they clearly won any rounds in particular. It's one of those fights where the 10-point scoring system puts the judges in a tough spot because they have to call it round by round and find something, anything they can to be able to score each round one way or the other, avoiding 10-10 rounds at all costs. So if you liked the occasional classy flurry from Ward then he ws going to win rounds that way, but that's his style (or rather the more eye catching aspect of his style). Kovalev on the other hand was going to win rounds by sheer pressure and from what I saw, a pretty consistent jab over the course of the fight. That being said, neither fighter dominated or controlled any point of the fight so a 1-point swing either way does not seem unreasonable. But referring back to the scoring system of the fight and weighing it up against the whole situation, you have a guy with 3 belts and an unbeaten record putting them all on the line, he drops the guy and though not wholly successful throughout the rest of the fight with his attacks, taking not a great deal of stick in return, yet winds up losing the fight and therefore all his titles? Did Kovalev really deserve to have everything taken from him after a cagey, often messy fight like that? Not in my opinion. Saying that Ward had to dominate the fight in order to dethrone the champion is basically a redundant point in this case. Look at the second half of the fight. Only 1 judge gave Kovalev one round out of the last 6 whereas the other two judges saw Ward cleaning up completely. Was that really the case? I don't think so.

I think Kovalev will be kicking himself that he didn't/wasn't able to capitalise on that early knockdown for sure, he seemed the more frustrated of the two as the fight wore on where you could see Ward was growing in confidence and committing to more power shots as the fight went on, but he was never able to dent Kov and Kov was never able to land anything major in return. Very much a case of both of them being neutralised in terms of genuinely effective work. Ward was clever in hitting on the break from some clinches and maybe those things caught the eye of the judges and gave the perception of Ward being the cuter of the two. I just don't think in a 12 round fight with so much at stake that the belts should be changing hands after such a close, largely messy fight where the only genuine highlight of the fight was a knockdown in the champion's favour.

I can see how under the 10 point system the judges could have arrived at the totals they did after 12 rounds, I just don't agree with them in this case.

See this is where scoring a level round makes sense. I scored two 10-10 rounds and I felt comfortable with that. Judges shouldn't try to 'find' a rounds winner, though I know they are pressured too. But scoring a round even is less likely to f*ck up a scorecard than basically handing it to one guy when there was nothing between them.

A common sense approach is required. Now if a judge is always scoring even rounds then fair enough thats a problem because there normally is a little something to separate fighters even in close rounds....but last night was one of those fights where there were some rounds that were really two close to call and that's where a level round is appropriate and the more sensible option to avoid controversy.
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« Reply #90 on: November 20, 2016, 05:56:51 PM »

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Gaz
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« Reply #91 on: November 20, 2016, 06:05:23 PM »

See this is where scoring a level round makes sense. I scored two 10-10 rounds and I felt comfortable with that. Judges shouldn't try to 'find' a rounds winner, though I know they are pressured too. But scoring a round even is less likely to f*ck up a scorecard than basically handing it to one guy when there was nothing between them.

A common sense approach is required. Now if a judge is always scoring even rounds then fair enough thats a problem because there normally is a little something to separate fighters even in close rounds....but last night was one of those fights where there were some rounds that were really two close to call and that's where a level round is appropriate and the more sensible option to avoid controversy.

In that case the scoring was even worse then because of a total lack of even rounds scored. There's just no way that Kovalev lost the entire second half of the fight.
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lurkyshaka
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« Reply #92 on: November 20, 2016, 06:10:36 PM »

In that case the scoring was even worse then because of a total lack of even rounds scored. There's just no way that Kovalev lost the entire second half of the fight.

I agree....I had the last 6 rounds scored Ward-3, Kov-2 with 1 even round and I think that was a fair refelction of the fights 2nd half. Ward edged it but Kovalev still had his success. The idea that Ward swept the last 6 is ludicrous. I think the judges fell in love with his comeback after the rough start to the fight and seemed to give Ward the benefit of every doubt.
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Gaz
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« Reply #93 on: November 20, 2016, 06:12:42 PM »

I think a rematch will be a very hard one to watch I'm not sure how the fight could be any different to what we saw last night, and it wasn't exactly pleasing on the eye. Only intrigue would be how 3 different judges would score it.
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lurkyshaka
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« Reply #94 on: November 20, 2016, 06:22:17 PM »

I think a rematch will be a very hard one to watch I'm not sure how the fight could be any different to what we saw last night, and it wasn't exactly pleasing on the eye. Only intrigue would be how 3 different judges would score it.

Agreed....it'll likely be another attritional type of encounter which will feature more spoiling tactics than actual offense, but its got to happen. It was an ugly fight at times last night, but it was still interesting and tense.

But I think Kovalev has more scope for improvement in a rematch. He had success with the jab only to get away from it. And I don't think Ward really took it away, more that Kovalev stopped using it as much. But when he did it allowed him to close the range whether it was landing or not, and when he did land with it, it was a damaging punch. Certainly committing to the jab more in the rematch would serve him well.

He did a good job of not allowing Ward to control the clinches, when they came together he'd put Ward back on his heels straight away and walked him backwards. They'd done their homework. Ward likes to get low, head in the opponent face and work in and off the clinches, but Kovalev nullified that to a large degree with how quickly he'd lock Ward up and physically push him back. In a rematch we'd see the same type of stuff from both.

One thing we didn't see all that much of last night from Kovalev was a committed body attack, and that was a shame as on the occasions he did go downstairs he found success. I'd like to see him really target the body as much as he can in a return. This is an area where he can really find success and do damage.
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« Reply #94 on: November 20, 2016, 06:22:17 PM »

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Driscoll
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« Reply #95 on: November 20, 2016, 07:42:02 PM »

I can't see them being able to sell the rematch as another PPV. Hopefully this doesn't stop them making the fight.
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« Reply #96 on: November 20, 2016, 09:19:27 PM »

Close fight agreed but I cannot agree Ward won all the rounds from 7-12 on two judges cards I don't see that at all.

Either way has to be a rematch as Stevenson has no balls to get in with Kovalev and probably Ward now.
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« Reply #97 on: November 20, 2016, 09:27:35 PM »

At the post fight press conference both ward and hunter said the fight was won because kovalev had no clue about inside fighting. Kovalev didn't know how to cope with the distance that effectively nullified his power.  Ward controlled the range -which from a casuals standpoint is sometimes not obvious to the eye.

If kovalev had an inside game hunter alluded that the fight would have been very different.

I was actually very impressed with kovalev. The outcome of a fight should not be decided by the geographical location of the event.
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Tim2366
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« Reply #98 on: November 20, 2016, 09:39:53 PM »

At the post fight press conference both ward and hunter said the fight was won because kovalev had no clue about inside fighting. Kovalev didn't know how to cope with the distance that effectively nullified his power.  Ward controlled the range -which from a casuals standpoint is sometimes not obvious to the eye.

If kovalev had an inside game hunter alluded that the fight would have been very different.

I was actually very impressed with kovalev. The outcome of a fight should not be decided by the geographical location of the event.

I actually thought Ward had to completely re evaluate his game plan and did so pretty early....he clearly wanted the rough inside fight he had wi Froch but ended up fighting from range after the knockdown. Fair play to Ward as he adapted very well.
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AO88
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« Reply #99 on: November 20, 2016, 11:52:18 PM »

Enjoyed the fight, deserves a rematch.

Gotta hand it to ward, he's got one hell of a record.
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« Reply #100 on: November 21, 2016, 08:20:40 AM »

Enjoyed the fight start to finish.

Observations:

Ward was a high school wrestler, so when Kovalev kept nullifying him in close, I was surprised- until they said Kov actually does a bit of martial art himself. As a result, Ward had no inside game. The mauling, wrestling and down right ugly tactics that Andre usually employs went out the window.

As a result of the above, then getting put down - he blew the first half and then had to try pure boxing. Which to be fair he did beautifully and bravely - thus taking the lion's share of the second half.

As brave and tenacious that Ward was, I didn't have him dominate anything whatsoever. He pecked away with a few snappy punches, but I had Kovalev as the winner by 2 rounds.
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« Reply #101 on: November 21, 2016, 12:32:41 PM »

Enjoyed the fight start to finish.

Observations:

Ward was a high school wrestler, so when Kovalev kept nullifying him in close, I was surprised- until they said Kov actually does a bit of martial art himself. As a result, Ward had no inside game. The mauling, wrestling and down right ugly tactics that Andre usually employs went out the window.

As a result of the above, then getting put down - he blew the first half and then had to try pure boxing. Which to be fair he did beautifully and bravely - thus taking the lion's share of the second half.

As brave and tenacious that Ward was, I didn't have him dominate anything whatsoever. He pecked away with a few snappy punches, but I had Kovalev as the winner by 2 rounds.


Interesting take. What was kovalev doing to nullify ward in close ?
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lurkyshaka
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« Reply #102 on: November 21, 2016, 01:09:09 PM »

Interesting take. What was kovalev doing to nullify ward in close ?

He locked him up and walked him back on his heels as soon as they came up close. It stopped Ward from doing the sneaky stuff he likes to do on the inside to a large degree.
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« Reply #103 on: November 21, 2016, 01:52:26 PM »

He locked him up and walked him back on his heels as soon as they came up close. It stopped Ward from doing the sneaky stuff he likes to do on the inside to a large degree.

Locking him up, sounds the same as clinching or holding to me.  Is there a difference ? Cus ward and Khan often get a lot of stick for doing that.

Given kovalevs fearsome reputation it doesn't seem to have surprised many people that he would need to do that to a guy coming up in weight. Maybe ward found kovalevs weakness and exploited it as the blueprint.

Didnt pascal do the same to kovalev ? Or was that fought more at range ?
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Tim2366
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« Reply #104 on: November 21, 2016, 01:55:11 PM »

Thats good news....the rematch is an absolute must happen.


Stevenson will keep quiet until it's signed and then call them both out  Grin
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