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Author Topic: Golovkin - Jacobs 24/7  (Read 4910 times)
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Tim2366
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« Reply #105 on: March 20, 2017, 09:37:43 PM »

Mate in all fairness....you make it sound like he's swerving Alvarez by staying at middleweight. But that fight should be happening at 160 as its the natural weight for both of them. It should not happen at any other weight and Alvarez trying to suggest it with catchweights etc is a straight up joke.

Completely unifying a division is massively important legacy wise. Its such an achievement.  Look at how often it actually happens to see how significant it is. Golovkin would be a fool not to finish the job if he gets the chance.

Golovkin might have spoke about fighting from 54-68 a few years back, but back then he called no shots and was begging for a chance. Now he can be more logical and fair to himself. He has a right to fight at the weight where he's at at his best. Why should he compromise himself? Especially when there is a superfight against Alvarez that everyone knows should be made at 160.

In regards Pavlik and Abe.....Pavlik was the definition of what you claim Golovkin to be. A powerful fighter that people got carried away with. But Kelly had been hurt plenty of times before winning the title and didn't last very long as champion.....and the 54 pounder guy that beat him would have stood Abraham on his head. Both were more than titlists, but neither were great.

Golovkin has far more chance of going to the HOF than either Pav/Abe.

The Alvarez saga is full of holes....he clearly doesn't want to fight at 160lb but he offered Golovkin the fight at 155lb and Golovkin wouldn't even consider it, if Alvarez didn't want the fight then why didn't Golovkin accept the 155lb offer and call his bluff?

Very easy to talk about Abraham and Pavlik in hindsight.

On regard the unification of a division I will obviously go to Frochs career....he was in a position to unify all 4 belts as the other champions were Bika and I believe Abraham or Stieglitz. We all know he beats them with ease but the title organisation wanted him to fight mandatories etc and also his better financial options were against his mandatories.

Unifying a division is all about appeal and options...it can only be done if the belt holders allow it and therefore it's just not that great an achievement. Kinda similar to McGregor being a two weight title holder in UFC.

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« Reply #105 on: March 20, 2017, 09:37:43 PM »

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lurkyshaka
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« Reply #106 on: March 21, 2017, 09:14:15 AM »

The Alvarez saga is full of holes....he clearly doesn't want to fight at 160lb but he offered Golovkin the fight at 155lb and Golovkin wouldn't even consider it, if Alvarez didn't want the fight then why didn't Golovkin accept the 155lb offer and call his bluff?

Very easy to talk about Abraham and Pavlik in hindsight.

On regard the unification of a division I will obviously go to Frochs career....he was in a position to unify all 4 belts as the other champions were Bika and I believe Abraham or Stieglitz. We all know he beats them with ease but the title organisation wanted him to fight mandatories etc and also his better financial options were against his mandatories.

Unifying a division is all about appeal and options...it can only be done if the belt holders allow it and therefore it's just not that great an achievement. Kinda similar to McGregor being a two weight title holder in UFC.



The Alvarez saga isn't full of holes....its dead simple. It could and should be made at 160 which is both mens natural weight class. There is nothing more to be said on that. The blame for it not happening lays firmly at Alvarez's door.

You're talking about Pavlik and Abraham in hindsight.....we're both talking about them knowing their full career history. They were solid but not great. And like i say a 54 pounder ended Pavlik's reign and I've no doubt Martinez would have easily dealt with Abe.....actually just thinking on, there is a nice little parallel too cus of course Martinez outclassed Alvarez's latest foe for 11.5 rounds too  Wink

With what you say about Carl, you say he was in a position to unify but he couldn't because he had mandatories to fulfill.....well that means he wasn't in a position to unify then if he'd have been stripped of titles in the process. And as you point out yourself whose to say that the other titlists would have wanted to face him anyway? I very much doubt they would since he'd already absolutely leathered Abraham for example. You really think Arthur would have gone back for another pasting??

And that's why Golovkin's position at present is so relevant because he could with one more fight take possession of every major belt.....and because of all the political difficulties in doing that, that's precisely why it'd be a very significant achievement. Again look at how many completely unified champions we've seen in recent years for proof of how rare it is now. Its not easy to do...therefore it matters.

Don't take my word for it....poll the board if you like?

If Golovkin can make a fight against BJS to unify everything then thats the fight he should take....the only fight I'd say of more importance at this point is the Alvarez fight.....and there we go, back to full circle and the same old issue namely that.........Alvarez doesn't want to f*kin know!
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« Reply #107 on: March 21, 2017, 11:02:56 AM »

The Alvarez saga isn't full of holes....its dead simple. It could and should be made at 160 which is both mens natural weight class. There is nothing more to be said on that. The blame for it not happening lays firmly at Alvarez's door.

You're talking about Pavlik and Abraham in hindsight.....we're both talking about them knowing their full career history. They were solid but not great. And like i say a 54 pounder ended Pavlik's reign and I've no doubt Martinez would have easily dealt with Abe.....actually just thinking on, there is a nice little parallel too cus of course Martinez outclassed Alvarez's latest foe for 11.5 rounds too  Wink

With what you say about Carl, you say he was in a position to unify but he couldn't because he had mandatories to fulfill.....well that means he wasn't in a position to unify then if he'd have been stripped of titles in the process. And as you point out yourself whose to say that the other titlists would have wanted to face him anyway? I very much doubt they would since he'd already absolutely leathered Abraham for example. You really think Arthur would have gone back for another pasting??

And that's why Golovkin's position at present is so relevant because he could with one more fight take possession of every major belt.....and because of all the political difficulties in doing that, that's precisely why it'd be a very significant achievement. Again look at how many completely unified champions we've seen in recent years for proof of how rare it is now. Its not easy to do...therefore it matters.

Don't take my word for it....poll the board if you like?

If Golovkin can make a fight against BJS to unify everything then thats the fight he should take....the only fight I'd say of more importance at this point is the Alvarez fight.....and there we go, back to full circle and the same old issue namely that.........Alvarez doesn't want to f*kin know!

Abraham and Pavlik were seen in the same light as Golovkin at one time....it's very easy to say ogerwise now but I'd bet you didn't back then.

Golovkin should have called Alvarez bluff but didn't.  Fact.

Unifying a division means nothing as it's all about circumstance.
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« Reply #108 on: March 21, 2017, 01:26:08 PM »

Abraham and Pavlik were seen in the same light as Golovkin at one time....it's very easy to say ogerwise now but I'd bet you didn't back then.

Golovkin should have called Alvarez bluff but didn't.  Fact.

Unifying a division means nothing as it's all about circumstance.

You're criticising a fighter for not calling somebody's bluff, but not criticising the bluffer?
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« Reply #109 on: March 21, 2017, 01:41:31 PM »

You're criticising a fighter for not calling somebody's bluff, but not criticising the bluffer?

I've criticised both....both guys have contradicted themselves several times in the saga. Golovkin made weight claims he wasn't happy to back up and criticised Canelo for fighting Khan yet then went and stepped in the ring with Brook. Canelo has claimed all sorts in regards his weight yet contradicted it every time.

I think Golovkin needs the Canelo fight more then Canelo needs the Golovkin fight but ultimately they're as bad as each other.
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« Reply #109 on: March 21, 2017, 01:41:31 PM »

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Socrates
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« Reply #110 on: March 21, 2017, 02:04:19 PM »

I've criticised both....both guys have contradicted themselves several times in the saga. Golovkin made weight claims he wasn't happy to back up and criticised Canelo for fighting Khan yet then went and stepped in the ring with Brook. Canelo has claimed all sorts in regards his weight yet contradicted it every time.

I think Golovkin needs the Canelo fight more then Canelo needs the Golovkin fight but ultimately they're as bad as each other.

Financially Golovkin needs it more.

From a legacy perspective, right now, Canelo absolutely needs it more.
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Tim2366
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« Reply #111 on: March 21, 2017, 03:02:25 PM »

Financially Golovkin needs it more.

From a legacy perspective, right now, Canelo absolutely needs it more.


Surely Golovkin has a legacy to consider also but like he always states....this is business.
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« Reply #112 on: March 21, 2017, 07:09:51 PM »

Abraham and Pavlik were seen in the same light as Golovkin at one time....it's very easy to say ogerwise now but I'd bet you didn't back then.

Golovkin should have called Alvarez bluff but didn't.  Fact.

Unifying a division means nothing as it's all about circumstance.

Pavlik was fairly highly thought of for a brief time, but it was very brief. But he'd hardly looked impervious at any time. He'd been hurt and dropped against lesser fighters before becoming champion....and again he lost his title to a jnr-middle and never rebounded. He was exciting and watchable but I never considered him having a chance at going down as a recognised 'great'.

Abraham was a solid titlist, but he benefited from friendly officiating in Germany where he only had to open up for a couple 15 second bursts per round to take them. That being said he was a powerful fighter who had a very respectable reign. But a 'great' ....never in this world.

I love how you're critical of Golovkin for not agreeing to fight at 155....but you give Alvarez a pass for not fighting at 160, when its crystal clear that middleweight is where both men are at their best and where it should be fought at....given that Alvarez became the linear champion by beating Cotto! Its retarded to suggest that fight be fought anywhere other than 160.

Unifying a division means nothing??

Tell that to the handful of men in the modern era who managed to take possession of all 4 belts. Of course it means something. Its a huge achievement.
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« Reply #113 on: March 21, 2017, 08:59:50 PM »

Rumours seem to be that GGG v Saunders will be done for 10th June in Kazakhstan. It would seem a great move if this is the case as then the Canelo fight would still be in play for September if both were to win.
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« Reply #114 on: March 21, 2017, 09:29:21 PM »

Rumours seem to be that GGG v Saunders will be done for 10th June in Kazakhstan. It would seem a great move if this is the case as then the Canelo fight would still be in play for September if both were to win.

Yeah makes sense.....Billy Joe seems very confident too going by his latest IFL interview. He clearly  fancies the job and also had a few harsh words for Alvarez. Last piece of the puzzle for Golovkin and Saunders has the chance to gatecrash and win it all in one fight. Hope this comes to fruition....I just wonder how Alvarez will wiggle out of a September date now?

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« Reply #115 on: March 21, 2017, 11:40:01 PM »

Pavlik was fairly highly thought of for a brief time, but it was very brief. But he'd hardly looked impervious at any time. He'd been hurt and dropped against lesser fighters before becoming champion....and again he lost his title to a jnr-middle and never rebounded. He was exciting and watchable but I never considered him having a chance at going down as a recognised 'great'.

Abraham was a solid titlist, but he benefited from friendly officiating in Germany where he only had to open up for a couple 15 second bursts per round to take them. That being said he was a powerful fighter who had a very respectable reign. But a 'great' ....never in this world.

I love how you're critical of Golovkin for not agreeing to fight at 155....but you give Alvarez a pass for not fighting at 160, when its crystal clear that middleweight is where both men are at their best and where it should be fought at....given that Alvarez became the linear champion by beating Cotto! Its retarded to suggest that fight be fought anywhere other than 160.

Unifying a division means nothing??

Tell that to the handful of men in the modern era who managed to take possession of all 4 belts. Of course it means something. Its a huge achievement.

Not sure where I've ever given Alvarez a pass....I'm just pointing out that he offered Golovkin the fight at a weight Golovkin had previously claimed he was happy to fight at and yet Golovkin said no.

Its really not.....unifying a division comes down to circumstance and politics. Look how many Fighters have been good enough to unify yet failed to do so.

If for example the WBC came to Golovkin and told him to fight a nobody for 500k but he had an offer from Saunders for 3 mil or even Alvarez for 15-20 mil what do you think he'll do?

You have to be allowed to unify and not all fighters are....therefore it's a pointless feat.
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« Reply #116 on: March 22, 2017, 06:57:25 AM »

Not sure where I've ever given Alvarez a pass....I'm just pointing out that he offered Golovkin the fight at a weight Golovkin had previously claimed he was happy to fight at and yet Golovkin said no.

Its really not.....unifying a division comes down to circumstance and politics. Look how many Fighters have been good enough to unify yet failed to do so.

If for example the WBC came to Golovkin and told him to fight a nobody for 500k but he had an offer from Saunders for 3 mil or even Alvarez for 15-20 mil what do you think he'll do?

You have to be allowed to unify and not all fighters are....therefore it's a pointless feat.

I think your point is very fair...Ive listened to numerous interviews with Abel Sanchez on this whole Canelo at 155 that left me scratching my head. The basic theme goes like this:

1. Golovkin beats anyone he fights between 154-168
2. We're not fighting Canelo at 155. Golovkin is a 160 fighter.
3. If Canelo gives up his belt to Golovkin, then we can talk about fighting Canelo at 155

Mate, the above is why you are SPOT ON with your criticism. It's not even about trying to defend Canelo because he is just as bad for saying he's not ready for 160 then all of a sudden jumping to above 160, but GGG seems to be getting a pass despite him and his teams contradictions
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« Reply #117 on: March 22, 2017, 07:27:19 AM »

I think your point is very fair...Ive listened to numerous interviews with Abel Sanchez on this whole Canelo at 155 that left me scratching my head. The basic theme goes like this:

1. Golovkin beats anyone he fights between 154-168
2. We're not fighting Canelo at 155. Golovkin is a 160 fighter.
3. If Canelo gives up his belt to Golovkin, then we can talk about fighting Canelo at 155

Mate, the above is why you are SPOT ON with your criticism. It's not even about trying to defend Canelo because he is just as bad for saying he's not ready for 160 then all of a sudden jumping to above 160, but GGG seems to be getting a pass despite him and his teams contradictions

There is a vast difference between saying something and actually doing it. Despite what Golovkin may of said he has always fought at 160lb. Where as Canelo is actually fighting between 154 And 160lb. To my mind be is the one that is clearly ducking considering that golovkin has always said "I want all the belts at 160lb".
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« Reply #118 on: March 22, 2017, 07:45:57 AM »

Not sure where I've ever given Alvarez a pass....I'm just pointing out that he offered Golovkin the fight at a weight Golovkin had previously claimed he was happy to fight at and yet Golovkin said no.

Its really not.....unifying a division comes down to circumstance and politics. Look how many Fighters have been good enough to unify yet failed to do so.

If for example the WBC came to Golovkin and told him to fight a nobody for 500k but he had an offer from Saunders for 3 mil or even Alvarez for 15-20 mil what do you think he'll do?

You have to be allowed to unify and not all fighters are....therefore it's a pointless feat.

In all fairness mate you are talking out of your arse.....unifying titles is a big deal, total unification is a major achievement. To claim otherwise is ridiculous. The exact level of importance is debatable, but to say its "a pointless feat" is ludicrous.

We've been through this weight thing before....several years ago when Golovkin was on the outside looking in, Sanchez said that they'd be prepared to fight from 54-68. But now that he's the middleweight champion why on earth would he agree to defend his title outside of the weight class?? Especially considering it'd come against an opponent whose a natural middleweight himself?? Again its ludicrous and its detrimental to the sport.

Catchweights used to be used on occasion to enable superfights to happen between men with a genuine size differential. That's not the case with Alvarez. Call a spade a spade Tim......Golovkin wants the fight at the correct weight. Alvarez doesn't and his catchweight demands are simply a way to weasel out of the fight without actually coming out and saying it.
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« Reply #119 on: March 22, 2017, 07:51:15 AM »

I think your point is very fair...Ive listened to numerous interviews with Abel Sanchez on this whole Canelo at 155 that left me scratching my head. The basic theme goes like this:

1. Golovkin beats anyone he fights between 154-168
2. We're not fighting Canelo at 155. Golovkin is a 160 fighter.
3. If Canelo gives up his belt to Golovkin, then we can talk about fighting Canelo at 155

Mate, the above is why you are SPOT ON with your criticism. It's not even about trying to defend Canelo because he is just as bad for saying he's not ready for 160 then all of a sudden jumping to above 160, but GGG seems to be getting a pass despite him and his teams contradictions

What Sanchez said a few years ago isn't really relevant anymore. Golovkin then was in a position where he needed to take whatever he could and so was open to fighting in the wrong weight class to get that break.

But fast forward a few years and at this point in time GGG is an established champion who is widely and rightly recognised as the No.1 at his weight. Why would he agree to defend his position as middleweight king at a weight that isn't middleweight against a guy who we all know is a middleweight? Its nuts. We all know which weight the fight should be happening at.

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