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LiveFight
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« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2009, 05:32:46 PM » |
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rbakich
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« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2009, 05:40:12 PM » |
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How can I say it was a fluke? Because, if you look at the rest of Roy's career, it certainly appears that it WAS! Name another top contender that Roy came out and stopped in one round like that. Off of that one performance, Roy got this big reputation as having that RJ alter-ego, which we never saw in the ring before or since.
Plus, after the fight, Montell claimed that he was given the business in the dressing room before the fight started. He was not given the opportunity to warm up. They just came to his lockeroom and said LET'S GO - the fight is starting. Of course, I don't know if it's true or not. I just always thought it was odd that nothing was ever made of that whole situation.
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Red
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« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2009, 05:58:58 PM » |
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Seems to be quite a few 'internet myths' flying about this thread. For one, this 'A Prime Calzaghe' comment i hear more lately. Fact is, Joe has always fought on the same level from the first fight to the last. His early KO ratio was more about BUMS than suddenly having bad hands. He has never had a peak and always performed the same. Secondly, anyone who thinks Joe would have took on the likes of a prime Roy Jones and won needs to put the crack pipe down. Calzaghe laboured to so many shitty wins i have lost count. ****** was the mastermind at bringing in spent fighters, whom usually had lost their titles a few fights back for a last hurrah in Wales. Joe had defended his WBO strap 10 times by 2001 and Jones was at light heavy with a bunch of belts that year and for several years after, but Joe wanted zero part of him then. Jones spanked a braver brit than Calzaghe in Clinton Woods. At the time of that fight, the belts that were brought into the ring were as follows :- WBC , WBA, WBA, IBO, IBA, WBF , NBA. Thats the 3 most important titles in boxing, plus 3 or 4 trinkets for good measure. Shortly afterwards he stepped up to Heavyweight and giving away 3 stone and 3 inches outboxed the WBA title off John Ruiz, breaking his nose in the process. Jones was aged just 33 at the time. He was world champion at middle (beat Hopkins), supermiddle (first to beat James Toney) Light Heavy (unified) Heavyweight. Check this Jones fight out, from 9 years ago and tell me Calzaghe would have beaten him (Joe was busy fighting Mario Veit in his 10th defence) :- WBC Light Heavyweight Title (6th defense of Jones) IBF Light Heavyweight Title (2nd defense of Jones) WBA Light Heavyweight Title (5th defence of Jones) |
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BrownBomber
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« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2009, 06:17:22 PM » |
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I feel sorry for Glenn Johnson - he's the forgotten man, even his own topic gets hijacked by other fighters.  Exactly - just read the thread and the debate surrounding Johnson didn't even make 2 pages, says it all really. Johnson was a rugged customer who I respected a lot from his willingness to travel , shame those hands flared up again but Joe would have taken the Piss out of him in clinical fashion had they met, super middle would have been ideal but the net result would have been the same @175. Love the way Calzaghe is still slammed for avoiding prime fighters like Hopkins who doubled his demands in '02, I'm almost sure I heard Jones admit that he didn't want to know when he was in his pomp  , he swerved Joe because he didn't present anywhere near the kind of purse he was looking for and knew that Joe would cause all sorts of problems with his workrate, a great fighter but one who didn't get pushed outside his comfort zone often enough for me. A businessman until the end - can you imagine him giving Joe an equal share of the split if he had still been a live fighter? |
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Ich Dien........
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Red
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« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2009, 06:31:58 PM » |
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Exactly - just read the thread and the debate surrounding Johnson didn't even make 2 pages, says it all really. Johnson was a rugged customer who I respected a lot from his willingness to travel , shame those hands flared up again but Joe would have taken the Piss out of him in clinical fashion had they met, super middle would have been ideal but the net result would have been the same @175. Love the way Calzaghe is still slammed for avoiding prime fighters like Hopkins who doubled his demands in '02, I'm almost sure I heard Jones admit that he didn't want to know when he was in his pomp , he swerved Joe because he didn't present anywhere near the kind of purse he was looking for and knew that Joe would cause all sorts of problems with his workrate, a great fighter but one who didn't get pushed outside his comfort zone often enough for me. A businessman until the end - can you imagine him giving Joe an equal share of the split if he had still been a live fighter? Just rumours about Hopkins and Jones. Wheras this article states clearly that Calzaghe wanted nothing to do with jones :- "I could probably give Jones a tough fight, probably the best fight he's ever had," said Calzaghe. "But I know my capabilities and unless I got paid the crown jewels I wouldn't want to risk it." (oh and says he's miles better than Lennox Lewis) http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/article-5499540-details/I+am+the+best,+says+honest+Joe+/article.do |
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WelshDevilRob
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« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2009, 06:32:08 PM » |
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Exactly - just read the thread and the debate surrounding Johnson didn't even make 2 pages, says it all really. Johnson was a rugged customer who I respected a lot from his willingness to travel , shame those hands flared up again but Joe would have taken the Piss out of him in clinical fashion had they met, super middle would have been ideal but the net result would have been the same @175. Love the way Calzaghe is still slammed for avoiding prime fighters like Hopkins who doubled his demands in '02, I'm almost sure I heard Jones admit that he didn't want to know when he was in his pomp , he swerved Joe because he didn't present anywhere near the kind of purse he was looking for and knew that Joe would cause all sorts of problems with his workrate, a great fighter but one who didn't get pushed outside his comfort zone often enough for me. A businessman until the end - can you imagine him giving Joe an equal share of the split if he had still been a live fighter? Very true, the Hopkins double demand seems to get conveniently forgotten. Roy also made a statement saying he had no interest in fighting Joe back in the day - which basically was that fighters had to come to him. Benn, Darius M and Joe all quality fighters are missing off his resume. Infairness I don't think Joe vs Roy was ever likely to happen - the period when it could have they were in different divisions, Joe through his career was at his ideal weight of SM so had no need to move up. As for Glenn his story is pretty remarkable - he was basically a Gatekeeper and turned it around. He was losing to the likes of Ottke, Sheika and Vanderpool and then gatecrashed Tarver and Jones. I think his timing was fortunate and he met a poor champion in Woods (a man defeated by David Starie). Woods abit fortunate aswell that the LH division was so old and weak. |
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David Haye on Klitschko:"All I need is a ring and a ref who can count to ten"
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Methodical4u
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« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2009, 06:10:20 AM » |
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johnson ko around 8th back then he was knocking out roy jones beating woods and tarver and would easily dispatch calslappy
Joe's chin is far to good for a KO, he doesn't have that great KO power anyway, he just caught Roy on a night where Roy lost it all. |
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 Did you hurt your hand?  |
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Brick Top
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« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2009, 10:16:53 AM » |
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Joe's chin is far to good for a KO, he doesn't have that great KO power anyway, he just caught Roy on a night where Roy lost it all.
I know its not a KO, but how can you say his chins to good for Jones to KO Joe when he put him on his arse in there 1st fight at 39 years old |
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BrownBomber
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« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2009, 10:35:32 AM » |
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I know its not a KO, but how can you say his chins to good for Jones to KO Joe when he put him on his arse in there 1st fight at 39 years old
There's a difference between a flash knockdown and being put to bed, no one has come close to doing so with Joe - Mitchell felt the brunt of it after daring to drop him @the CIA and we all know what happened after he got tagged by 'Nard and Jones Jr. No clean shots landed after their early success when he got caught cold, Jones was a frightening proposition back in the day, that power with those reflexes would have caused major problems, Joe would not have hung around to take them like some of the cannon fodder Jones went through though and would have proved far more elusive. |
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Ich Dien........
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Che Guevara
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« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2009, 10:47:28 AM » |
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There's a difference between a flash knockdown and being put to bed, no one has come close to doing so with Joe - Mitchell felt the brunt of it after daring to drop him @the CIA and we all know what happened after he got tagged by 'Nard and Jones Jr.
No clean shots landed after their early success when he got caught cold, Jones was a frightening proposition back in the day, that power with those reflexes would have caused major problems, Joe would not have hung around to take them like some of the cannon fodder Jones went through though and would have proved far more elusive.
joe didnt put to many to bed himself, and lesser oppostion at that  |
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jimjack
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« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2009, 10:51:57 AM » |
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It's very hard to say someone would defo have beaten Joe, as no one was able to draw up the blue print on how to do it. We know he didn't have great k.o power, but regardless of that he always had enough to get him through every fight.
With RJJ there has been a blueprint set on how to beat him (regardless of how old or past it he was at the time), so whilst i agree a peime RJJ is one of the best suoer middle's ever it's still very hard to back him to beat someone who proved unbeatable in the ring.
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Brick Top
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« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2009, 12:53:01 PM » |
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There's a difference between a flash knockdown and being put to bed, no one has come close to doing so with Joe - Mitchell felt the brunt of it after daring to drop him @the CIA and we all know what happened after he got tagged by 'Nard and Jones Jr.
No clean shots landed after their early success when he got caught cold, Jones was a frightening proposition back in the day, that power with those reflexes would have caused major problems, Joe would not have hung around to take them like some of the cannon fodder Jones went through though and would have proved far more elusive.
2 flash knockdowns in 2 fights though? Definatly raises my suspitions. |
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Gaz Calzaghe
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« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2009, 03:43:58 PM » |
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2002, Joe Calzaghe I would predict a TKO. 2004, wide UD.
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WelshDevilRob
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« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2009, 03:53:22 PM » |
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2 flash knockdowns in 2 fights though? Definatly raises my suspitions.
He was knocking on though. It's abit like saying Lennox Lewis got hit too much based on his last fight. Or Holmes is quicker than Ali based on Ali's last fight. You can't compare a fighter and base it on his last fight - it makes no sense. We all get old. |
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David Haye on Klitschko:"All I need is a ring and a ref who can count to ten"
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